Tom Crean Can't Coach: Wrong Again
by JustAJ on Feb 17, 2012 9:23 AM EST
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PrintTom Crean, the owner of three straight 20 loss seasons has been lambasted by rivals and his own fans on his ability to coach. Coach Crean is the general of the write him off as terrible army. No facts you throw at anybody can convince them that he doesn’t just throw talent out there and let them do the work. Instead they’ll harp on how he needed a 5 star in Zeller to be good this year, or needed Dywane Wade to go to the Final Four with
Never will they point to the 2006-2007 season where
Luke Winn of SI.com pointed out in his most recent power rankings (IU was #10) that
In more advanced and complete metrics, Tom Crean’s teams have finished well in the national races also. Ruling out Crean’s first two years at IU where he was playing a majority of walk-ons, his teams have finished in the top 40 of Ken Pomeroy rankings 6 times and every team he has had besides those first two Hoosiers teams fell within the top 100. Pomeroy metrics only go back to 2003, so that leaves out his first two years on the job of Marquette, a ’01 second place finish in conference and a ’02 Final Four run. This doesn’t say that Tom Crean is an elite coach by any means, but it tells me that he can compete with the big dogs when it comes down to it.
Crean’s teams when including the right horses have been incredibly successful in the past. He is one of only four coaches in the conference that has actually seen a Final Four. You can’t knock him for Dywane Wade being on that team either, because Purdue’s Matt Painter had an All-American and All-B1G player on his roster last year and fell to
In the end, it probably doesn’t matter what Crean’s accomplishments are. He’ll win Coach of the Year for the Big Ten this season, if the Hoosiers finish strong, but people will still find ways to write the man off. Lindy’s (one of the premiere college basketball publications) picked IU to finish 11th in conference. They’re most likely to finish 5th with a shot at getting as high as 3rd. But that won’t matter to detractors, they’ll find a way to downplay that and point to his 6-8 losses as a sign of his ineptitude. Despite what the haters are going to say, Crean can coach and recruit and a top 5 National Coach of the Year finish will cement that.
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To my knowledge CTC has never had to suspend a player for disciplinary reasons. Or at least hasn’t had to suspend a player for starting a drunk bar fight. Or maybe he simply doesn’t recruit idiots.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Feb 17, 2012 10:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Try again
Not a bar fight (which if you actually read more wasn’t an actual fight), but he’s had his player issues.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/bigten/2009-02-08-indiana-dumes_N.htm
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/01/tom-crean-making-a-mistake-not-suspending-derek-elston-for-trip-video/ (this is an IU grad writing)
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2003-11-21/sports/0311210325_1_preseason-nit-georgia-tech-drunken-driving-charge (from Marq days)
I have no idea if 87 is talking about Purdue and Bryd. Suffice it to say, what you have collected are two on-court incidents and an academic suspension. I don’t see Painter as a lax disciplinarian by any sense, but whether you like it or not, it probably speaks well of Crean that he hasn’t had an off-court incident analogous to what happened with Lewis Jackson, Tarrance Crump, or Byrd (and who knows what to believe about Barlow’s suspension from last year). Again, I don’t mean that to be an indictment of Purdue. These things happen to all coaches eventually, and I’m sure something of the sort will happen eventually. But if that was the best you could find, I think you are proving 87’s point.
As for Elston’s non-suspension, I like Jerod, but that piece was a bit overwrought, no? My goodness. Elston tripped a guy. He was ejected from that game. That was and should have been the end of the story.
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by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 17, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
87 is pretty clearly talking about Purdue
Given the context of the statement and that 87 makes shots at Purdue regularly anyways.
On the “Crean doesn’t recruit idiots” comment, two on court issues and one academic issues do qualify as examples that could disprove that (please read my following comments fully responding). Behavior is behavior, no matter where it happens.
What I have collected is an attempt to show that college kids are sometimes college kids and do stupid things. That in itself isn’t a reflection on the coach. Instead, the reaction to it is a reflection on the coach.
Not a Crean criticism at all, but more to point out that just because he hasn’t happened doesn’t mean it won’t. In fact, I would probably put money on the fact that it will happen in his career. Sometimes you just can’t predict what a college kid is going to do.
Case and point
Barlow is off PU squad, Byrd suspended for a day.
Kids may act stupid, but as long as coaches punish them appropriately, I don’t place that blame on the coach.
I’m not sure why you are being so defensive about Painter. I don’t think anything I’ve posted in this thread is horribly negative about him. I consider Painter one of the good guys, although I find him a bit self-righteous in that regard. Still, this is a situation involving a bunch of guys who should be leaders of your team, so I am guessing Painter will be re-evaluating curfew rules, etc.
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by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 17, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Look at 87's post again
To Quote “Or maybe he simply doesn’t recruit idiots.”
That’s a direct shot at Painter, which is what I responded to. You didn’t take one, she did. That was all I was saying.
Please reread my posts above
I’m fully in agreement that Kelsey Barlow is an idiot who blew his shot at something good (scholarship bball at Purdue).
My only comment is that it isn’t reflective on Painter that he recruited him, only if he let it slide and didn’t do anything about it. He obviously didn’t let it slide, so my point is proven.
As for Barlow, I don’t have sympathy for someone who does something stupid, is punished for it (last year suspension), but doesn’t learn from their mistake and continues to be stupid.
Lewis Jackson also says, "hello".
But again, I was just being a dick. All college coaches run the risk of recruiting idiots.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Feb 17, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Perfectly OK with that.
I just want the opportunity to provide my opinion against it. That’s all I was doing in response, which then turned into a couple more to explain my comments further.
Don’t care if you celebrate the misery (honestly, don’t all fans do that a little for their opponents?) as I’m sure I would secretly (and some PU fans not so secretly) if the situation were reversed.
Though…Jackson? One thing 2 years ago and nothing since, don’t think I’d put him anywhere close to the same label as Barlow.
Also
I hope I’m coming across as civil as possible here.
I enjoy the opportunity to comment on opposing team’s boards and intend on always doing so with some rational thought (and hopefully facts to back it), so I don’t want to come across as some raving nutjob who is too blinded by his school affiliations to take part in a normal discussion with opposing fans.
you've been perfect
shining beacon of positive commenting.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I think we're more so celebrating Barlow finally getting his comeupance
than the misery of Purdue. That is a bonus, but the kid was on his 8th strike and we definitely remember the choke sign from his freshman year. Dude is a tool and finally got his.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I was just being a dick.
I don’t think the mistakes of college players are all that reflective of the coach. Painter, at the very least, does a good job of not holding back the punches as far as discipline is concerned. I just take joy in the misfortunes of Purdue basketball much like Purdue fans took joy in the past 3 years regarding IU basketball.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Feb 17, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Well, based on the way the story is developing, “fight” might have been a charitable characterization. Sounds like it may go beyond PI for Byrd, and Barlow apparently has been tossed from the team.
It’s too bad. I really wanted Kelsey to have the opportunity to lose at Assembly Hall. 
In all seriousness, it is unfortunate. I was a fan of Kelsey’s dad when I was a kid, and I certainly feel for the family and for the player for wasting a great opportunity. On the other hand, with the admission that I have no idea what IU’s players are doing at 2:00 a.m. on a typical Friday morning, the more I learn about this, the more surprised I am. Is it typical for basketball players, at IU, Purdue, or anywhere, to be hitting it hard that late on a weeknight? In my day, it was pretty unusual to see basketball players out partying, unless they were redshirted or injured. I may well have been unaware, but I don’t remember hearing many party stories about IU players when I was in school, particularly not during the season.
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by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 17, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
It’s funny you mention that because I was having this same discussion with one of my Purdue buddies earlier. Now keep in mind that I’m 34 and out of shape, but why in the hell are you out at 3am on a weeknight when you have a huge game on Sunday? I’m not saying you can’t have a few pops on a Thursday night, but shouldn’t you call it quits around 12:30? I was never a D1 athlete and I spent my fair share of Thursdays on Kirkwood when I was in school but I don’t ever remember seeing AJ Guyton out getting wild on a Th or Fri before a game.
by Nick Melvin on Feb 17, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
My freshman year was 1992-93, when IU and Michigan both spent most or all of the season in the top five. The game against Michigan in Bloomington was on a Sunday, and the night before, a girl who lived in my dorm came back and said she had seen Todd Leary drinking at a party. We were incredulous that he would be doing that the night before the biggest game of the season, but after asking a few questions we figured out that it was Todd Lindeman, who was red shirting that year, and not Leary (who would go on to disappoint us in other ways, of course). Dakich had a tweet to that effect today, something along the lines of, what are players doing at the bars during the season? I have no idea what the current standards are. When Davis was the coach, nwhen my mister was in school, it wasn’t uncommon to see players out. But my sense is that it didn’t happen much wheKnit was the coach. I never saw a player out who wasn’t redshirting or injured.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 18, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Tom Crean should be a legitimate COY Candidate
I think the fact that success at Indiana was previously a standard sight to the nation seems to overshadow what Crean has done over these past few years. People forget so quickly that IU literally started at ‘rock bottom’ to get here.
In the 1st few weeks of his tenure, Crean had the fanbase optimistic and excited but still underneath the massive weight of "you know what".
After year 1, IU Fans could finally start talking just Basketball again. Even though it wasn’t pretty, just 12 months of work got us to the brink of a breakthrough: Landing a solid class (2009) and serving as the hinge that hopefully opened the program up to some tangible success.
This year, IU entered the year with expectations of maybe 16-18 wins, middle of the road in the B10, and maybe a Bubble Team at best. INSTEAD, IU sits at 20-6 with the chance to get to maybe 24-25 wins, possibly land a 3-4 seed, is watching the maturation of one of College BBs best young Bigs in Zeller, overcame a midseason slump, likely undefeated non-conference schedule, and a few of the highest profile wins in the nation (UK & OSU). On top of that, the team GPA increased dramatically. What was an unusual lull in grades turned into a highlight achievement off the court.
If this was expected, it wouldn’t be a big deal… but it wasn’t (yet at least). The big breakthrough was supposed to come next year. This was supposed to be a another hurdle, but instead it was a launching pad.
Crean inherited a situation where Coaching was just the half of it. The intangibles of keeping a fanbase together, selling the "idea of Indiana basketball" to recruits who didn’t have a team to grasp, teaching a team how to win (a very underrated trait), and now finally actually Coaching them. Finding hidden gems like Oladipo and Sheehey and then landing studs like Zeller, Yogi, and Hanner is a huge step in such a short time.
What Tom Crean has done is remarkable. Some of the critics likely couldn’t have been appeased anyways. Every IU fan should be able to see where the program is now and compare it to just a few years ago and be very thankful he was able to pull this off with plenty of upside and momentum left.
IU is not yet near where it can potentially be as a National Program, but is way ahead of schedule getting there.
Thanks Coach!
Proudly banned from Stampede Blue
Naptown Tees: www.naptowntees.us
by XLI on Feb 17, 2012 10:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This
On top of that, the team GPA increased dramatically.
A million times over.
by hoosierdaddynow on Feb 17, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
This line
is what I like most about coaches as well.
Yes, you put together a good team. Big deal. Oh wait, you put together a good team, and made sure everyone was doing well in class….consider me impressed.
Look at UConn. Sacrificed academics for winning. College is about bettering your life after school is done. Most of these players are not going to the NBA. If they aren’t making it at that level, they need a degree to get themselves in a good position for life.
I respect the hell out of a coach who ensures his team is going to class as much as they go to practice.
Good coach?
Yes. This season has confirmed that. I am most impressed with the development of guys like Sheehey and Oladipo, and the strides that they have made from last year to this year. And, to a lesser extent, the improvement in the games of Watford and VJ ILL.
Great coach? Jury’s still out on this one. And I like Crean. I am not a detractor. Neither am I like half of the state (and 95% of the commentariat at Inside the Hall) who thinks they know more about basketball than Coach. When he consistently contends for Big Ten Titles and Final Fours, then we’ll call him that. I think that he can. I am giddy about our prospects this year. I am delirious about next year and thereafter. I hope that he can join the ranks of Izzo and his ilk.
by hoosierdaddynow on Feb 17, 2012 10:51 AM EST reply actions
I agree with this.
My opinion last year was that a) it’s not yet clear if Crean is an elite coach, but b) anyone who ignores his Marquette record for the sake of proving that he is some sort of bumbling moron is either stupid, dishonest, or both. As AJ notes, if nothing else, his last three years at Marquette show that he is a good coach. And the Marquette Final Four run, often dismissed by his critics because he had Dwyane Wade, was a great run. IU’s 2002 run to the Final Four was great fun, and I don’t mean to minimize it at all, particularly the epic win over Duke, but one thing that really helped was that IU’s bracket fell apart. After beating 12 seed Utah we played #13 UNC Wilmington (they upset #4 USC) and then, after beating Duke, played #11 Kent State. Kent State certainly had legitimized itself by then—they knocked off #3 Alabama and #2 Pitt to get to the regional final—but it was a break. Marquette’s run to the Final Four in 2003 was not like that. Marquette was the 3 seed, and in its final three wins knocked off the 6 seed, the 3 seed, and then Kentucky, which was the #1 seed and the number one team in the nation. I think it is worth noting that in that particular season, Dick Vitale and other morons were up in arms about UK and Arizona being seeded to meet in the national semifinal, because the perception was that those two teams were far and away the best in the nation. UK went undefeated in the SEC and entered the Tournament on a 23-game winning streak. And Marquette beat UK by 14 in a game that really wasn’t that close. Marquette led by 19 at the half.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 17, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Also
Should note that I completely agree with AJ that Coach Crean is the perfect guy for the job.
by hoosierdaddynow on Feb 17, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
dwade and zeller
Him getting guys like dwade and zeller also show what good of a coach he is… Recruiting is as big as anything when it comes to being a college head coach
by michamat3 on Feb 17, 2012 1:33 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I think he's a good coach with room to grow.
Let’s face it, there is always room to get better. He’s proven he can recruit. How many coaches could’ve landed “The Movement” following a 12 win season, without cheating? I doubt there’s very many. He’s proven he has an eye for talent. He landed Oladipo and Sheehey (ok, Will kind of fell into his lap but that’s beside the point) and look like they should’ve been 4* players instead of unheralded 3*, Remy Abell has looked pretty good, and Luke Fischer may move up the rankings.
I think he’s just fine at game planning and half time adjustments. My biggest question has always been his ability to adjust on the fly. He’s not Coach K, or Izzo, or Knight, but very few are. I think he still has some growing to do in this regard, but I think he can.
I’ve heard opposing fans change their argument about Crean. First they said he could coach, but he couldn’t recruit. When that was proven wrong, they changed said he could recruit but he couldn’t coach. If they have to keep changing their argument, we’re in good shape. If the biggest knock on him is that he claps too much, or that he looks like Tom Arnold/Dwight Schrute, well ladies and gentleman we’re in for one hell of a fun ride.
"When my time on Earth is gone, and my activities here are past, I want they bury me upside down so all my critics can kiss my a**"- Bob Knight
"Talent is God-given, be grateful. Fame is man-given, be humble. Conceit is self-given, be careful."- John Wooden
"Never take anything for granted. Don't forget, great prices have been paid and will be paid again if you become too smug, too egotistical and self-assured."- Johnny Cash
by JumpinJackFlash on Feb 17, 2012 5:39 PM EST reply actions
I agree with this for the most part
there is definitely room for improvement. I’d say he’s a top 5-6 coach in the conference. Nothing more, nothing less.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
5 or 6? What 5 or 6 coaches are better than Crean in the Big Ten?
It sounds crazy but there is only 1 coach that I would take over Crean in the Big Ten.
I especially have a hard time believing there are 5-6 coaches in the Big Ten that could’ve brought IU back this fast with what Crean had to start with.
Just my opinion.
2012 Gators to love: Elam, Debose, Powell, Burton, Hammond Jr., Jelani Jenkins, Gilly, Matt Jones
by Gators1 on Feb 18, 2012 6:49 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'd go with Izzo, Bo Ryan, Beilein
4a Painter, 4b Crean, 4c Matta
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Really? Crean has been to a place Painter, Ryan & Beilein have never been and might never get to.
Crean is also much younger then 2 of the 3.
Izzo is the only one I agree on, but I can see why you were thinking Ryan and Beilein as they both are very good coaches, they just have been unable to get to the final four.
2012 Gators to love: Elam, Debose, Powell, Burton, Hammond Jr., Jelani Jenkins, Gilly, Matt Jones
by Gators1 on Feb 19, 2012 2:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think it might be a matter of wanting to figure out what we mean with various terms. Some people separate “coaching” from the overall management of the program—recruiting, etc. For instance, if the question were, who would be the most successful given identical rosters, I certainly could accept that Crean would be behind Ryan, Izzo, Beilein, Carmody, and Painter. If the question is, “would you trade Crean for any current Big Ten coach?” I think the only guys I would give a serious look would be Izzo and Matta. In other words, given IU’s championship level aspirations, I think Crean is a much better fit for IU than would be guys such as Painter and Carmody, even if I think they might be able to accomplish more with any given roster. I think Matta is the only one who could have IU where it is in year 4, given the situation that Crean inherited.
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by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Feb 19, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
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