Anybody want to help fill me in on the 2012 situation?
by LukeNukem on Mar 30, 2011 2:59 PM EDT
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PrintSo there are 13 scholarships to give, right?
So far I'm counting 12 scholarships for 2012 that I think are locks:
Jordy Hulls, PG (Sr)
Christian Watford, SF/PF (Sr)
Mo Creek, SF (Sr)
Derek Elston, PF (Sr)
Victor Oladipo, SG/SF (Jr)
Austin Etherington, SG (So)
Cody Zeller, C (So)
Hanner Perea, SF/PF (Fr)
Yogi Ferrell, PG (Fr)
Jeremy Hollowell, SF/PF (Fr)
Ron Patterson, SF (Fr)
Peter Jurkin, C (Fr)
Any info on the 13th? The team is an enviable position for that year, given that it doesn't have to scramble to fill the scholarship and give it to someone who may not deserve it (like it has the last two years). But recruitment wise, is it down to Gary Harris and A.J. Hammons? Anyone have any insight or updates on which guy is more likely to sign (if either of them are)? Anyone I'm missing? Or are there any rumors that any of the above guys will transfer?
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I am far from an authority on these things
Your are missing Sheehey. As far as I am concerned, from what I saw of him this year, he’s a lock for this roster and the Freshmen will have to bust themselves prying him out of the starting lineup. Your roster assumes that Capobianco leaves, which is the most likely transfer. Jury’s out on Elston. I think that Patterson is a guard, not a small forward. There’s a possibility of another signing for the 2011 class. As I understand, they are kicking the tires on some power forward from a prep school in Florida. Jurkin may reclassify to 2013, which would open up some breathing room. I am not sure what the rules are on “oversigning”. If there is another spot to be had, I think that the overwhelming concensus is to go after Harris, not Hammons.
by hoosierdaddynow on Mar 30, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Mar 30, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
IDK
I have no idea how to make enough room on the roster and keep Sheehey under scholarship. Yes, I assume Capobianco will transfer (and Elston is a possibility too, I guess). Patterson to SG? Maybe. I actually figure he’s going to be an A.J. Moye type who’s undersized and is technically a guard but is so strong he matches up with fours. So I don’t know really what he is. The positions were just to help me sort out maybe what the Hoosiers need for 2012 (they actually look pretty balanced). What does “reclassify” mean? You mean he’d be a freshman redshirt? Even with Cody as a sophomore that’d be a pretty shallow group of bigs for that year…I was kind of hoping Jurkin could contribute right away.
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Ideally Capa and Elston both transfer
meaning Jurkin wouldn’t have to reclassify and we could still get Harris. There’s almost no way Sheehey is going anywhere. Only possibility I see in him leaving is if he’s worried about PT come his junior and senior year. By 2012 it may be a little hard to come by. But Crean loves him, the fans love him. It’d have to be his choice to leave.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
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by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Mar 31, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
PT
It’s going to be tough getting all these high profile guys PT, let alone Sheehey. I’m not sure the fact that he’s a fan favorite guarantees him anything. I mean, dude works hard (and has his electrifying moments on the court), and I like him, but he’s going to have to earn it in practices against guys who are twice as talented and athletic.
I dont’ know what to think about Elston. I was really excited about him when he came out. He was tough in high school, and I remember him being sort of a leader. Now he looks lost and sort of like he forgot how to play basketball.
Neither of those guys are locks for PT in my opinion. I think if nothing changes and all our commits actually arrive on campus (and Creek makes a full rehab, actually improving his conditioning and getting stronger in BOTH knees) you’ve got six guys who are pretty sure bets to make up the core rotation: Ferrell, Creek, Perea, Watford, Zeller and Hulls. That’ll probably leave 2-3 floor spots for guys to earn significant PT. One of those spots is going to go to a big (so that favors Elston, if he can get his head on straight and start to actually be the player we thought he was coming out). The other 1-2 would be fought over by Hollowell, Patterson, Sheehey (maybe), Etherington, Oladipo and maybe Harris if they recruit him. It’s going to be tough to guarantee ANY of those guys PT in 2012. Nice problem to have for us fans, difficult decisions to be made by Crean and his staff. You want to put the best players out there, and you want to make sure you’re getting these young guys a chance to prove themselves, and improve with real game experience.
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Basically we'll have a bench better than most teams' starting 5.
Like you said, it’s a good problem to have. I imagine it’ll all work itself out organically over the next year and a half. While it’s hard not to I’m TRYING to not focus too much on 2012. It’s a pretty long way away.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Mar 31, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I think next year will be fun to watch
Hulls, Jones III, a healthy Creek, Watford and Zeller will be a competitive starting 5 in the Big Ten. There’s also some good depth. I don’t see why 20 wins overall and a tournament berth isn’t attainable. I just like thinking about 2012 because it’s such a revolutionary-type recruiting situation for the Hoosiers. Recruiting classes like this don’t come around very often.
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Creek is a huge if.
IF he plays and plays well and without fear of reinjuring either knee then he’ll be a valuable contributor. IF he plays up to or surpasses his freshman level then 20 wins is possible. If not we may end up being somewhat mediocre again.
I agree about 2012. I don’t remember us having such a spectacular class before and I’m anxious to see them all play together. But still, it’s SOOO far away.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Mar 31, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
They don’t have to transfer. I’m pretty sure Crean can just pull one of their scholarships, right? I mean, the scholarships are renewed year-by-year, I thought. If they get Gary Harris, they’d obviously find a way to make sure he got a scholarship.
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Boo
There are organic means of working this out without pulling a scholly. If the guy does not earn it, that’s fine. If you are pulling it because you found a more attractive recruit, then BOO. Not a good way to endear yourself to future recruits.
by hoosierdaddynow on Mar 31, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Organically?
I’d be shocked if these type of guys aren’t given the suggestion that they ought to walk away from major programs all the time (with the unspoken understanding that there won’t be a scholarship waiting for them because of newer, better recruits). Maybe I’m a cynic, but I assume that’s just the nature of the beast. I want IU to have 4-5 star recruits ONLY every year. They shouldn’t have to uncover hidden gems like Sheehey and Creek (his first year). Studs should flock to Bloomington like they do to Carolina, Kentucky and Duke…and it looks like they are again, finally.
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Nature of the beast
I honestly don’t know whether that’s the nature of the beast. It may be. It’s also the nature of the beast to recruit ringers who have no business on a college campus (see, e.g., Ellis, JaMarcus). And I think that everyone around here, from fans, the university, and the coaching staff, have decided that’s not the nature of the beast with this program. And I think that if a kid commits to you, then you commit to the kid. That should be the way that this program is run. I think.
Now if a kid is clearly not cut out for the program, and you can help him get to a place that is better for him, it may be a different story.
In my humble opinion, Sheehey is a key cog to the success of this program over the next three years. I don’t care how many stars were after his name or are after the other recruits’ names. My eyes tell me that he belongs on that Court. He’ll definitely have to earn his playing time over the next three years. My point is that I have seen nothing to indicate that he’s not capable of earning it, or that he should not be given the opportunity.
by hoosierdaddynow on Mar 31, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, to each his own
In my opinion you’re viewing Sheehey through crimson-colored glasses. As far as I’m concerned, a team that’s gone 28-66 over the last three years ought to be completely overhauled, and that’s happening starting in 2011. If Sheehey can earn a scholarship working out amongst the likes of Hollowell, Patterson, Harris, etc, by all means, he should get one. But I’d be shocked if he’s good enough.
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I have to agree with HDN.
In all teams professional and amateur alike you have your superstars and you have your role-players. While Hollowell, Patterson, Watford, Creek, Hulls, Perea, Zeller, and Ferrell will be the most minutes you’ll always need a couple guys to provide that spark when the energy isn’t really their. IMO those guys will be Oladipo and Sheehey. There were times this year when those 2 were the only reason I could keep watching games. We as fans should appreciate that and should stay committed to these guys. So far they’ve earned the right to be on the team and I hope that doesn’t change.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Apr 1, 2011 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Sheehey
You need what Bill Simmons refers to as “glue guys”, and I think that’s the role that Sheehey will fit into. Someone who may not be a superstar, but plays well at both ends of the Court, brings it every game, and has some intensity. Give you 20-25 minutes a game, and put up a line of 8-6-2, or something like that. Kind of like AJ Moye. Also, at that point in his career, Sheehey will bring veteran leadership, and will be needed to show the youngin’s the system, etc. I think that you are cutting young William short.
by hoosierdaddynow on Mar 31, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe so
I just don’t want to see more talented players’ roster spots (Harris?) jeopardized by a role player. If you have high school stars from top to bottom, you’ve got to hope that some of them can accept the role that they won’t be college stars…there’s just not enough minutes. I see hard workers like Etherington, Patterson, Hulls and maybe Elston (if he matures) turning into the “glue guys.” Again, I don’t want to see Sheehey go, I just wonder if there’s room.
"You're hitting the wrong person. Don't you know you're hitting Ron Artest?"
Come visit The Fantasy Ninjas. We'd love to hear from you.
Well, even if this class turns out very well some of the 2012 recruits will be little more than role players as freshmen. That’s the way it goes. I think Sheehey as a junior may well make 2012-13 a better team than some of the freshmen. Personally, i would rather see Jurkin reclassify to 2013 than lose Sheehey.
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by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Apr 1, 2011 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Given the choice I'd have Jurkin reclassify as well.
However, We’re going to need another big man if we want to make any noise in the tournament. We have to find to way to have them both in 2012.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Apr 1, 2011 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure
what team you were watching this year, but IMO Sheehey had more potential than anybody on our entire roster. I honeslty prefer his game over Oladipo’s, becuase even though he’s not quite the leaper VO is, he already has a much more rounded offensive game, including a much better jumper. I expect both to be signficant contributors as upperclassmen, including fighting for starting spots over several of our 2012 freshman. In fact, I’d say of our current recruits, Yogi is the only one I expect to start right away.
And how are you even coming close
to comparing Sheehey to Elston. Sheehey was a better player by far as a freshman that Elston was a sophmore.
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