Why Indiana Will Beat Kentucky
by JustAJ on Dec 7, 2011 9:00 AM EST
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Yesterday I covered what would go wrong in the event of Indiana falling to Kentucky on Saturday. Today I am going to cover the four factors that will go right if IU is going to pull this game out and upset the top rated Wildcats. These factors are must haves for the Hoosiers to win. Yesterday’s factors were weren’t mandatory to pull off a win, but these following four are. Without these four factors Indiana doesn’t stand a chance.
Play Through Zeller: If Indiana is to win it will likely be on the back of great offensive play by Cody Zeller. Zeller has the advantage over Kentucky big man Anthony Davis at this point in the season. But AJ, you say, Davis was the top rated freshman coming into this season by recruiting experts! I won’t try and argue that, it is true that Davis has the higher ceiling and potential in the long run, but Zeller is infinitely more polished as a center right now.
Zeller grew up playing the post and even I underestimated his abilities coming into the season. In turn, Anthony Davis has been a post player for all of about 2 years. He’s spent the majority of his career as a guard and at the NBA level will not be a big man. In turn, Davis is a post player like Kevin Durant is a post player. Freak athleticism and great outside-in game make him a potential superstar at the next level, but he’ll be asked to play the post on Saturday and most of this season. Zeller will have the experience and skill advantage as a post player come Saturday, so Indiana must expose that strength.
Cody’s brother Tyler Zeller showed that a bigger physical post man can give Davis fits. Cody is going to have to one up his brother and take care of the ball while he has possession in the post as well. If the ball can get moved through Zeller then his post passing will expose the perimeter for the sharp shooters. The ball must go through Zeller and he has to win his matchup against Davis.
Make it Rain: Three point shooting will likely decide the game. North Carolina lost their best player in Harrison Barnes for a majority of the game yet still led at half time and kept the game very tight. How? They shot well from the perimeter. Why did they eventually fall? They went cold from the perimeter. The must have for the Hoosiers is to keep up their strong shooting they’ve showed all season.
Kentucky is somewhat susceptible to quick swings in the offense and struggle to close out on the perimeter in the shift. This is a reiteration of playing through Zeller. Getting the ball into the post and then getting quick kicks back outside will give Indiana plenty of wide open opportunities to drop daggers. They have to do that. Three pointers is what will keep the building rocking and momentum on the Hoosiers side. Indiana absolutely must show up with its sniper scopes equipped. Kentucky will not be susceptible to anything in between. It either needs to be layups or bombs from downtown.
Wictor Sheeladipo: Kentucky vs. Indiana will likely be one of the best battles of the sixth man that we could see all year. Darius Miller is probably the number 2 scoring option on any other big contender in college basketball. He can certainly fill the bucket up and just because he isn’t a starter doesn’t mean he isn’t a major contributor. The same goes for Will Sheehey. In fact, through eight games, Sheehey has been the second most used player on the Hoosiers team behind his fellow sophomore and recruiting class accomplice Victor Oladipo. Sheehey has shown the ability to take over a game while providing some lock down perimeter defense. The exact same goes for Oladipo. Both players along with Zeller are the three guys that are most capable of physically matching up with Kentucky. A big game from all three will be in high demand if the Hoosiers want to pull this one off. The cited lack of physical capabilities from Hulls, Jones and Moore from yesterday, can be covered up with big games from Sheehey and Oladipo. A big game from these two guys on the defensive end, will lead to a ton of points on the offensive end and help keep the appropriate high tempo game that Indiana thrives in.
Box Out, Damn It: NC State feasted on the Hoosiers in the paint during the first half of last Wednesday’s game. Why? No one could be bothered by getting physical on the defensive end and boxing out. What turned the tide in the game in the second half? Every player was racing to get a butt into someone when the shot went up. They still struggled at times against the 7 post players on NC State’s roster (read when the post consisted of Elston and Pritchard) but were holding their own for the most part. Fortunately for Indiana, Kentucky lacks the Patrick Patterson type player that they’ve had in the past. There is no power rebounder on the Wildcats squad. Certainly there are some good rebounders but none of them are the mountainous physical force that Patterson and Josh Harrellson have been for them in the past. If Indiana can keep the rebounding ratio near 1:1 then they’ll have a chance in the final minutes. Second chance points have been the Achilles heel to date for the Hoosiers and that has to change starting Saturday.
In the end, Indiana is the underdog in this game but I think home court advantage could be key. The young Wildcats have yet to enter into the type of hostile environment that Bloomington will be on Saturday. They’ll have to get out to a quick start or The Hall will be rocking all afternoon. In order to take some responsibility I’ll go ahead and put my prediction out there. Indiana will hang around and even give an appearance of taking this game before eventually falling to the Wildcats in the fading moments of the game. The Hoosiers lose in a close that isn’t reflected in the final score. Indiana in an attempt to foul their way back into the game will lose by 7, 75-68.
***Disclaimer***
Keys to the game shifted slightly from yesterday after some more discussion with Kentucky fans and a closer review of the North Carolina game. I understand that some of what is written today is hypocritical of what was posted yesterday. What are we if not constantly learning?
For more information on Kentucky basketball check our SB Nation sister site, A Sea Of Blue.
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I like the 'box out, damn it' line.
My man-cave is often filled with expletives during IU games but never more than when the Hoosiers aren’t boxing out. If there’s one criticism I have for Crean so far this season is that he apparently has yet to get through to the team in this regard. Hopeully he stressed it a LOT in practice this week.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 9:27 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I am shocked
SHOCKED, by the number of reasonable, level-headed UK supporters who posted and commented yesterday. I still haven’t found my bearings yet.
I am interested to see how IU handles itself on defense. We held our own, and at times even thrived, against NCState, which is the best comparison for this game. The ‘Pack had a lot of long, athletic guys. Not the caliber and depth of athleticism that we’ll see Saturday, but certainly comparable. Still, I remain skeptical of our defensive bona fides. That will be a key, and a hopeful distinction from UNC, whom I feel is not good defensively.
Home court advantage may play a role here. That place will be an absolute zoo, and if IU can come out and make some early shots and take a lead, you can easily say that none of the UK players will have played in an environment like that, because there is no comparable environment. That will be the release of A LOT of pent up frustration from the last three fifteen years. If UK can maintain its composure, I think that you are right: IU hangs around for a moral victory, but loses by less than 10. If UK does not maintain its composure, and IU can turn them over, then…maybe.
it pains me to say it
But the vast majority of kentucky fans are reasonable, polite, and friendly. The ones that aren’t are in most cases Kentucky fans who have never stepped foot in the state and are Kentucky fans for the same reasons why they are Laker fans and Steelers fans. I have some cousins and an aunt and uncle who live in Owensboro and I can’t even goad them into trash talking with me. It’s frustrating.
Still interested in seeing what vegas has to say about this game. If the opening line is +15 or higher I’m taking the Hoosiers.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 9:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
rumor has it the opening like will be around Kentucky -6
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
wow.
That’s hard to believe. I can normally pick lines pretty well and I thought the lowest it would open at is 8 1/2 and by the time everything is said and done it’d move to 11. But that was being optimistic. Figured it’d be higher. I’ll never bet against the Hoosiers, but if it really opens at 6 I can see a LOT of action on KY.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
kenpom’s formula has it as a 6-point Kentucky win (75-69) and gives IU a 31 percent chance of winning straight up. Pom usually seems in sync with Vegas, and I think IU has exceeded the Pomeroy projection comfortably (I think +8 against Stetson is the closest—in most games it has been 10 or more, including NCSU and Butler) in every game so far.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 7, 2011 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
IU has covered every bet I've made so far.
I need to pay more attention to pomeroy. Didn’t realize his projections mirror vegas so closely.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 10:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
it is a case of the loudest tend to be the most obnoxious
much like the IU free board on Rivals. It is where trolls show up to play and because no one is going to pay to read another teams pay site for one weekend they don’t get the benefit of seeing the good side of the fan base. Same goes for Kentucky and every other fan base in the world. I’m sure they’re mostly good people. I know Raylan Givens is a Wildcats fan.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Bulls fans are worse than most.
That’s all I know for a fact. Bunch of entitled whiney bastards.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 10:47 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Completely different topic
But no one — and I mean NO ONE — is worse than Ohio State fans, in any sport at any level.
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 7, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I haven't had enough interaction
With OSU fans to confirm or deny, but I’ve heard that said hundreds of times before so there must be some validity to it. Probably has to do with how terrible pro sports in ohio are.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 11:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I dunno. Until this year tOSU football had been terrorizing the conference
Oh, you mean legally professional sports teams?
Thanks, I’ll be here all week.
The Indystar comments sections got pretty bad too.
There’s a reason I played more on the Colts end of that site (well, until this year) than the IU, and it’s directly attributable to the trolls and idiot commentors. I never viewed comments sections as being dumping grounds for stupid thoughts, but rather hoped that they’d be great interactive section for fans to explore stories and columns to greater depth than the original writer. Or in short, to have a value-add contributed via crowdsourcing.
Unfortunately, the reality is that news comment sections are treated like bathrooms by too many people: They put the same things in there that they do in toilets.
Thank God for blogs where reasoned discussion occurs. Seriously. They need to be the majority, not the rare oases of rationality in vast internet deserts of idiocy.
--------
"First they came for the ugly, and I did not speak out because I was not ugly.
Then they came for the nerds, and I did not speak out because D&D IS A RESPECTABLE GAME WITH A LARGE PLAYERBASE OK MOM???
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out because let's be real they always come for the Jews.
Then they came for me, and I did not speak out because they actually came for me back when they came for the nerds."
--
"How can a pickup truck contain enough mass to unfold into a towering machine? I say if Ringling Brothers can get 15 clowns into a Volkswagen, anything is possible."
I like the existence of the comments on the Indystar.
Solely because one can always point to them as proof of Purdue’s little brother mentality. Go to an article about IU and you’ll find that 50% of the comments are from trolling Purdue fans. Go to one of the rare Purdue articles and out of the 10 comments made maybe one will be from a trolling IU fan.
It’s good to be the king.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 8, 2011 8:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Agree you have to go through Zeller.
Inside-out is always a good thing, especially when you have IU’s outside shooting. But expect a quick double-team. Tyler said after the UNC game that it wasn’t the double-team that caused him so much trouble, it was how fast it came at him. Normally, he said, you get the ball and see the double-team coming. But UK came so fast with it that he was sometimes double-teamed before he got the ball, or so it seemed. IU needs to anticpate that.
On the other side, UK just had a 40-minute practice with a good post player named Zeller, so there should be a comfort level with few surprises. Anthony Davis might be surprised to see that he’s playing Cody Zeller in consecutive games (he misspoke after the UNC game by referring to Tyler as Cody.) Excellent point about Davis being a newbie in the post. He’s just now learning to get low so he doesn’t get pushed around. He and Wiltjer are soft underneath and susceptible to physical play. The refs could play an important role here: Touch fouls will hurt UK, and physical play underneath will be no picnic either.
not sure what crew we're getting but if it is Big Ten officials you can almost be certain
they’ll call some idiotic touch fouls and then let some egregious mugging slide. Inconsistent doesn’t begin to explain B1G officials.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
completely agree on this point
UK shown an incredible ability to double team and cause have on Zeller (part II). if IU is going to have success, Zeller (part III) is going to have to do a better job of distributing from the post.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
sorry ....
- UK showed * and *caused havoc **. sorry, i’ve got a pounding headache right now but i can’t get enough basketball strategy talk. hahaha
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
Zeller, version 3.0
Has shown a good knack for distributing from the post so far. This is where Watford becomes a factor. If he plays like he’s 6-8, he can exploit the double teams on Zeller. If he plays like he’s 6-2, then never mind. You might also see VJ3 and Sheehey cutting to the basket on the week side.
How does UK use their dribble-drive best? Are they kicking to shooters, or guys like Jones cutting to the basket?
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 7, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
full disclosure: I too am a UK fan
and I must say I enjoy your blog here. These two articles are a fascinating look into how one looks at UK and views their own strengths/weaknesses. I love the strategy angle of articles like this instead of the normal vitriol that accompanies this game (from both sides). a few of my own thoughts
1.) an interesting ‘homecoming’ game for Marquis Teague. given the circumstances of his Indiana/Kentucky All-Star game and the hostility given him, I wonder if too much emotion gets the better of him.
2.) how IU’s potent offense handles a tenacious defense (and vice versa). UK cannot afford to allow IU uncontested looks from behind the arc. I know UK prevailed last week with a -21 margin in comparative 3 point margin (which is astounding in itself), but I don’t want to push my luck.
3.) I have seen the perspective that you need to make UK play defense for 35 secs. While that may hold some water, I would argue making UK play offense for 35 would be much more detrimental.
Anyways, good luck on Saturday. And I’m thankful you have a blog here where other fans can discuss without all the verbal grenades being fired.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
Does that mean no inbred jokes?
How has Teague performed this year? I have not followed too much, and don’t wish him ill. That matchup — Teague versus presumably Oldadipo, in a very hostile environment, may go a long way toward deciding the game. If Teague does not get rattled, then you probably win.
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 7, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was Mike Pegram that said it on Twitter
and I would tend to agree with him in this… “the first five minutes of Marquis Teague will likely determine how the entire game plays out.”
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
by JustAJ on Dec 7, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Question to our UK "friends" ("frenemies"?)
Who backs up Teague if he’s not composed? Lamb?
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 7, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
to my IU 'frenemy'
lamb backs him up right now. he actually does a great job and the offense runs arguably smoother when he’s in there. but after fall term, UK will have a back up PG in Twany Beckham (transfer from Moo St, err, Miss St for you non-SEC folk)
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
the crowd will undoubtedly be hard on Teague.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets booed every time he touches the ball. If that gets to him it’ll be a big advantage for IU. God dang, I wish I could afford tickets.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 1:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Sean May treatment.
Very likely.
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 7, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
honestly.....
the jury is still out. the early travails of teague have been documented (way too many turnovers) but that’s not unique to him in the Dribble Drive Offense (Rose, Evans, Wall, and Knight all had same level of transition into college basketball). Teague is in a unique position where isn’t necessarily relied on to be THE GUY where as the other PGs had to do that. he does need to keep his aggressiveness in attacking the rim as much as possible.
to your point, so IU has Oladipo on Teague, then I presume you have Hulls on Lamb (in my opinion, not the matchup you want) and Jones III/Sheehey on M K-G or Miller (again, from my perpective a matchup I think favors UK). it’s going to be fun to see how Crean matches these boys up against Cal.
Also, you have to consider how this team (with their new recognition) handles the pressure of playing in a hostile environment. This will be a good test for this UK team going forward (in road SEC games @ Vandy, @ UF, @ MSU). last years squad didn’t do well in that aspect but it helped them come tourney time.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
agreed
this will be a great experience for Kentucky no matter the outcome. They’re going to have to learn to play in a hostile environment at some point, might as well be now. There is no great perimeter match up defensively for IU, but I would say Oladipo will be on Teague. The dude is just an all around disruptive force on the perimter D. The idea outside of that is probably Hulls on Lamb and Hulls’ job will just to be not letting Lamb touch the ball. Screw help D you just focus on your guy. Let the other four handle everyone else. That’s how I’d play it at least. Of course my basketball coaching experience is in middle school, so I don’t know how much of an authority I am.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
I don't really want Hulls matched up on anyone
I love him, but he’s not a great defender. The more I think about it, he can probably do better trying to stay in front of Teague (even though I know that’s not easy) than he can trying to defend a shooter like Lamb. And if he can’t stay in front of him, you have Zeller to pick him up.
But, I still think that you put your best defender, Oladipo, on the ball. You’ve got a young kid in an extremely hostile environment who is somewhat prone to turn it over. Press that advantage. Stop the ball, or better yet, turn it over. Make Lamb or MKG beat you with the shot. And I say that knowing full well that they can do so.
UK has a lot of advantages here. There’s no great option. That’s the one that I think is least bad, and has the biggest upside in possibly creating some transition offense.
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 7, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
the problem with trying to make Kentucky play defense for 35 seconds is you won't last that long
Kentucky will force a result before 35 seconds, so your best option is to never let them settle into their defense. Push the ball on every possession and force them to communicate and adjust on the fly. If they can take a few seconds to settle in and get everyone on the same page, the likelihood that any offense gets a good look on them drops dramatically.
I know Kentucky fans seem to be disagreeing greatly with me but you have to push the tempo against a more athletic and tenacious defense. You have to have incredible size like Wisconsin or over matching guard play like UConn last year to play in the half court against long athletic defenses. If you don’t have that then you’re just waiting 20 seconds to make a bad play instead of taking the first good open look you can find.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
i somewhat disagree
Old Dominion made them play offense for the full shot clock (through a zone defense). to be fair, it was UK’s first time as a unit against a zone and exposed a potential weakness of this team. and not to sound arrogant because i know this team has some flaws, it’s just not really been exposed. someone is going to expose what they can’t do well. well, ODU did get in their heads by getting physical and trying to instigate chippy play (which UK fell right into). UK is incredible in the second half adjustment department this year. he’s often criticized for this but the man does deserve credit when he get it under control and this year, i truely think he’s done a wonderful job of that. holding UNC to 29 in that second half (with that explosive offense) is damn near a miracle.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
making UK a jump shooting team.....
has been talked about as a flaw and personally, i think it’s a coin-flip strategy. they’ve got guys who can knock down perimeter shots. this isn’t the 2009-10 team who was solely an athletic team. they’ve got shooters. i do wish we could get wiltjer in there knocking some shots down to improve his confidence. if and when that happens, then i would feel much better about UK’s team going forward.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. -- Colonel Jessup
I think you guys are talking 2 different things here
AJ is saying that IU needs to push it on offense, not hold the ball deep into the shot clock….#76 is saying that IU needs to try to make UK use a lot of clock on their offensive possessions.
I agree with both, but easier said than done…
as for the verbal grenades
we appreciate smack talk but John, Devin and I will not let it turn into some sort of free board nonsense. Some smack is good, but hate is something that drags down the quality of the blog as well as the community.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
by JustAJ on Dec 7, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is it OK
If we all just agree to make fun of Tennessee?
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 7, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
UK fan who admires IU
Longtime Kentucky fan here – but that doesn’t make me a Calipari fan.
Living near Louisville – I long for the days when UK, IU and U of L were consistently in the top ten and I feel those days may be returning.
At least until Calipari puts UK back on probation.
I hate the way he recruits, how he constantly belittles the UK tradition by saying the greatest day in UK history is when we have players go to the NBA, and when he comes out and says the program isn’t about the fans – but all about the players.
The guy is going to ruin UK but too many UK fans have drunk the Cal Koolaid and can’t see it.
As much as I never thought I’d say it – I’m pulling for IU to humble Kentucky this Saturday. The sooner we can get rid of Cal the better.
And congratulations to you Hoosiers. You’re rebuilding your program the right way – you’ve got a good crop of players coming in next year (many of them from your home state) and hopefully they’ll stay three or four years and make you winners.
Meanwhile – we Kentucky fans only get to keep our players for 8 months before Cal starts stalking the next batch of high school juniors who haven’t even made it to their senior prom yet.
Keep those candy-striped warmups – keep recruiting your in-state players and keep doing college basketball the right way. You might win a few more fans from south of the river!
But…when UK gets their act together and hires a real College coach – I’ll be back in BLUE!
In reference to Coach Cal
I have an infinite amount of respect for him as a coach. I think he really knows what he’s doing. You can have all the talent in the world and still struggle against good college competition. The repeated success he has shown of getting freshmen to play together like juniors is impressive on several scales.
As a recruiter, I’m suspicious. Lots of smoke, yet no fire in his past. I would feel a lot better about him if the NBA made it a two year rule. BUT if that happened it is likely UK will be in the national championship at least every other year and we can’t have that happening.
As long as Indiana recruits Indiana first and foremost I’ll feel good about our recruiting. Indiana and Illinois are two of the hottest recruiting beds in the nation. As long as you can pull the top talent from here you’ll be fine and won’t look shady in the process. As I like to say, a college basketball team that wants to win a national championship better have a least one Indiana native contributing to their on court success.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
it's easy to get drunk on talent and winning.
I’m fairly confident that most UK fans will support Cal as long as he’s pulling in the recruits and winning games. People won’t turn on him unless he gets KY hit with sanctions, which I’m not hoping will happen, but won’t be surprised when and if it does. Or if the endless one and done classes don’t bear championship banner fruit within the next 3 or 4 years. Regardless I agree that I dislike the man, his demeanor, and most of what he stands for. I hope you get your wish in the not too distant future.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 1:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Gotta disagree man
I love UK AND Cal. Of course, there is no way of knowing if he really did get his hands dirty in the past. However, I’ll admit he has done some strange things and said some strange things. But check the facts behind the UMASS and Memphis situations. Cal wasn’t implicated in either case. He turned in Camby to the NCAA and was noted as an “innocent victim”. In the Memphis case, the Ncaa cleared Rose TWICE, but then did a 180 and decided to vacate the wins. I personally find no reason to believe that Cal is a “cheater”.
Question: If Indiana does beat Kentucky, would it be appropriate for IU students to rush the floor?
Accompany your answer with parameters for when floor-rushing is appropriate at IU, if at all. (There is no game for three days. Rehashing well-worn irrelevant argument time, GO!)
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
Hmm. IU has five previous wins over #1 teams, and only one of those has happened at Assembly Hall. That was the January 2001 win over #1 and defending NCAA champ Michigan State in Mike Davis’s first year. There was court-charging in that game, as well as in March 2000, when IU beat MSU in overtime (incidentally, MSU did not lose again, to anyone, until the aforementioned 2001 game). All of IU’s other #1 wins were in the NCAA Tournament (Duke 2002, UNLV 1987, UNC 1984) or neutral sites (Kentucky 1993 in Indy—I was there and it was great fun).
Beating #1 is a rare and major event, and I think I can live with it under any circumstances. We can debate the ideal IU fan reaction, but under the current circumstances, I would have no problem with it, so long as we don’t repeat the Minnesota and Illinois occurrences of recent years. And it’s especially important that the students not charge the court when we beat Purdue on senior night.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I seem to recall that there was floor-rushing after a win over MSU in 2005, I think.
I remember because I was at the game, and I remember it keenly because I was in the pep band, and had my trumpet on the bench behind me when we weren’t playing. Somewhere in the middle of the second half, a section mate tapped me on the shoulder and pointed at my horn, which now had a huge bend in the bell and pointed to starboard at the same angle that Dizzy Gillespie’s horn pointed up. I was fucking pissed. I was on the border of the student section and clearly some student had done this; no band member would be so clumsy as to step on someone’s horn in that situation. I picked it up and started demanding answers from the students next to and behind me, and started to cry because it was my fucking trumpet, perhaps my most valuable possession financially and emotionally at that time. Nobody would look me in the eye. Anyway, those students were really lucky that the court was stormed, or I would have kicked someone’s ass, band uniform or no.
/cool story, sis etc.
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 7, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
That might have made SportsCenter. It would be particularly humiliating to have one’s ass kicked by someone wearing a vest and bowtie.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 7, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Not even a bowtie. A pointy button-tie such as those worn by sixth-grade show choirs and cheap valets.
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 7, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
they'll rush the floor, no doubt.
Would it be appropriate? Yeah, I think so. While I am a big fan of the ‘act like you’ve been there before’ argument anytime your team is unranked and you beat #1 in the nation you can rush the court. For an up and coming program anytime you hit a BIG milestone win at home it’s probably ok to rush. I’ll say you’re allowed at MOST one rush a year, you must be a pretty big underdog, and the game has to come down to the wire.
"It's an easy game, man. Easy game."
~Edgerrin James
by 87 Rides A Surfboard on Dec 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
yes
rushing the floor for this game is acceptable. Minnesota and Illinois? Never. But after several years of pent up frustration, beating a number 1 overall a year ahead of schedule would be rush worthy.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Blech... I don't know if it's appropriate to rush the floor for anything other than championships or games that clinched something important.
But then again, I’m an old fart who remembers the ‘87 champions (I was in high school at the time). So I’m a bit more snobbish about IU basketball standards than anyone who absorbed it in the post-heyday period.
I’ll say this: I’m no longer all that adamantly against floor rushing. Especially given recent history. So while my own personal standard is that it’s not appropriate for anything short of winning conference titles (like say, winning the B10 tourney, or The Big Dance itself) or close hewn games that gain you something beyond the game itself (for example, getting an entry to the NCAAs… or achieving an undefeated regular season), I really can’t complain if the student section decides to have some fun. College sports is all about exuberance, and while I’d shake my head at a floor rush for a win over UK, I’d also grin. Which is a change from my opinions in the past, but it’s also an acknowledgement that times are just simply different.
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