Improving the Already Amazing Crossroads Classic
by JustAJ on Dec 19, 2011 1:05 PM EST
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PrintBoilers, Bulldogs and Irish, oh my! This Saturday saw the first re-installment of the Crossroads Classic that was established in in 1948 as a battle of the state’s top basketball programs. By every single account I have read, whether it be media, coaches, athletic directors or fans the event was a resounding success. I can tell you that I sat at home for 5 hours and didn’t flip the channel once. The show must go on.
Indiana has long needed the return of something of this format and we have finally got it again. Of course, you have to blame the Hoosiers in the first place for it taking 50 years to fire it back up again. Indiana left the event in 1959 and it shortly dissolved into nothingness after that. My only real complaint with the Crossroads Classic is that it wasn’t bigger. I loved that the four premiere programs in Indiana were in it, but now I demand more. I demand that they extend the Classic into a second day. Take four more of the state’s top programs and put them into the mix as well.
If you can add the likes of Indiana State, Evansville, Valparaiso and Ball State then we can really have a party. I would like to see a relegation format become a part of this field of 8. The first year can have Butler, ND, Purdue and IU square off against each other on one day, while UE, Valpo, State and Ball State show down on the next. The two winners of the first tier get to keep their spot in the first tier of next year’s classic. The losers have to move down to the next division. On the flip side, the two winners of the second tier get to move up and play on the bigger stage next year, while the losers stay put. I think something like this would inject a competition factor into the Classic that would make it less kumbaya and more cutthroat.
Can you imagine the amount of fun it would be for the Big 8 in Indiana to all come together for one weekend in our state’s capital to slug it out for supremacy in the state. Bragging rights would be on the line and fan pride would be in full force. Now that is an event that I want tickets too. Plus, if you split the tiers so that one high tiered game is played on Saturday and the other on Sunday, you can guarantee attendance at both days to be incredibly high. The only thing that would make the Classic more perfect is if we were to go back to our Indiana roots and play the games in a newly renovated Hinkle Fieldhouse. It gets me excited just to think about the possibility of all that Indiana history and tradition crammed into two days.
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I really, really like this
It would be nice if IUPUI and IPFW could earn a way in too, say if they won their conference the previous year.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
Perhaps it could eventually become a full-bore tournament.
You could definitively declare a “state champion”
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 19, 2011 1:19 PM EST reply actions
if we can't have a single class system in high school
why not college? 41% of the players on the current teams listed are from Indiana. (WARNING: Rant eminent)
After a little further research, Notre Dame only has one native Hoosier. For that I am offended and wish ill on them this season. Seriously! How in the world are you completely devoid of homegrown talent? Indiana is a top five talent center in the nation for basketball players and you only have one?! AND you had to poach that one player from another instate school to get him(Scott Martin)! How in the world does an Indiana team not have a single Indiana kid? I hope they toil in awfulness forever. Eff the Irish. UE, ISU and Valpo are getting accusing looks as well since they only have 3/4 each, but they are excused for lack of name value. Indiana kids tend to get a higher national opinion of their pedigree so many big mid-majors pull that second and third tier of kids out of state. Still, these three schools need to do better in state. Everyone else’s roster is composed of a majority Hoosiers with Ball State winning the percentages with 67% of their roster being home grown.
/end rant
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Evansville is adding at least one indiana kid
Kokomo’s DJ Balentine is going there, and he was one of the most impressive juniors in the Junior/senior all-star series last summer.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
Cause: only one kid from Indiana on roster
Effect: Notre Dame sucks. But your point is a good one. These mid-majors could make a living off the extremely talented kids from Indiana that might just be a couple of inches short or a step slow. Prime example: Nic Moore from Warsaw, who has ended up at Illinois State. There is no way that Ball State or Valpo should have let him get away.
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 19, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
AJ, Notre Dame is an internationally recognized university
which simply happens to be geographically located (barely) in the state of Indiana. If anything, alumni may tell you that it is a metro Chicago school. If more Hoosier students were admitted (athlete or otherwise), that would just lower their high standards.
More seriously, Notre Dame has never had an especially large recruiting footprint in Indiana. I looked at their list of basketball hall of famers on Wikipedia – not all of them, just the first 10 men, through Adrian Dantley. Just one – Leo Barnhorst – was from Indiana. Barhorst attended Cathedral HS in Indianapolis. Indeed, 7 or 8 of those ten went to Catholic high schools elsewhere in the country, typically on the east coast.
Whether that’s because of 1) the natural connection to Catholic prep schools across the country; 2) they don’t compete well locally with IU and Purdue; or 3) something else, I can’t be sure, but I’d guess #1 is the main reason.
Sorry, that's their list of notable athletes
not their hall of fame. Apologies for any confusion, but the point stands.
"Metro Chicago" is really a stretch. It's about two hours to Chicago with light traffic.
It’s really more of a “province of Detroit”
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 19, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think even geography of the mind puts South Bend squarely in some destitute corner of Michigan.
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 19, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
South Bend is connected to the Loop by commuter rail
$10 bucks each way. And ND is covered in the Chicago media like the home team.
by ChicagoHoosier on Dec 19, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
All of this is true.
But, speaking as one who is currently pondering a move to South Bend and spends most weekends there, South Bend has a very Michiganderish vibe. A grim, cold post-industrial town full of grim post-industrial people who must daily endure a depression of economy, employment, and spirit that is only barely lifted by summer.
However, I might be in line for a job up there and my fiancee lives there, so it’s a fucking dandy town full of upbeat people and lots of opportunity. But it’s still Michigan to me.
A sassy, brassy, classy lassy.
by LoneStarHoosier on Dec 19, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Michigan's not so bad.
An unbelievable amount of terrific beer is made in that state, and Lake Michigan is great. Ohio, on the other hand, completely blows.
by thunderpup12 on Dec 19, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
This is very true. Michigan’s economic numbers are ugly, but it is a beautiful place. South Bend isn’t exactly beautiful, but it does have some character if you look closely enough, and it has proximity to Chicago (90 minutes from ND to the Loop unless it’s rush hour) and Lake Michigan.
You are correct about the beer. Between Bell’s, Founders, New Holland in SW Michigan, and Three Floyds in Munster (Indiana, of course), there is an embarrassment of riches at the southern end of Lake Michigan.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 20, 2011 6:25 AM EST up reply actions
Is it me...
or are Ohio people just plain weird? Michigan people are too, but Ohio takes it to a whole other level. Food for thought.
Notre Dame has had some recent success recruiting in Indiana. Chris Thomas and Luke Zeller were the first-ever Mr. Basketballs to play for Notre Dame, and let’s not forget Mike Davis’s gift to the Irish, Luke Harangody. There have been a number of good but not elite players to come from Indiana—Ken Barlow and Scott Hicks came from Indy Cathedral in the 1980s—and other such as Pete Miller from SB St. Joe’s and, er, the Ross twins from Northfield near Wabash. I think the difficulty of the competition is a big part of it. I know that Digger Phelps really thought he had Kent Benson, and basically gave up on trying to go head-to-head with Knight for Indiana recruits after that. Brey has recruited Indiana pretty aggressively compared to his predecessors, and has had some success. I’m sure he went after both of the younger Zellers, and I know he gave it a shot with Gary Harris.
But, of course, #1 is a factor as well.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 20, 2011 6:42 AM EST up reply actions
That can't happen.
1) Colleges can’t play in the same tournament twice in back-to-back seasons
2) Tournaments can’t feature teams from the same conference
See the lord adore me, he met me half way / "No guts, no glory" I always say / So until I reach what I came here to find / Along with inner peace, life will always be a grind
I agree with bringing in IUPUI and IPFW
We could make it a nice and fun event like this past weekend with 5 games, or we could make it truly cold blooded and knock a team out for a year if they lose one of the “bottom” games. So essentially you have potentail year 1: IU defeats Butler, ND defeats Purdue, ISU defeats Evansville and Ball State defeats Valpo. Year 2: IU plays ISU, ND plays Ball State, Purdue plays IUPUI, and Butler plays IPFW with Valpo and Evansville sitting out.
IUPUI and IPFW would likely have to play someone else
Unless they would be willing to make it one of those two conference games against each other, which IUPUI might since it is closest to their home court.
A futile crusade to prevent mass ignorance
HammerAndRails, SBNation's Boilermaker Blog
Conference affiliations
Make it difficult to do any sort of tourney-style or relegation format. Only Ball State and Notre Dame lack a conference mate. Both IPFW and IUPUI are in the Summit League. Valpo and Butler are both in the Horizon. ISU and UE are both Valley teams and of course IU and PU. Still, it would be cool to invite all 10 teams, and do three games on Saturday and two on Sunday. Play two of the games at Hinkle (I assume that Butler would be cool with this), and three at Conseco. Make it a whole weekend. That would rock, and (I’m guessing) sell gobs of tickets.
by hoosierdaddynow on Dec 19, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer keeping it with these 4.
I just wish there was a way that we (Butler) could play Notre Dame, since Notre Dame sucks and hasn’t beat Butler since the late 80s/early 90s.
See the lord adore me, he met me half way / "No guts, no glory" I always say / So until I reach what I came here to find / Along with inner peace, life will always be a grind
I think that's what would be great about adding some teams
that way everyone can play each other except IU-PU, UE-ISU, Valpo-Butler.
-Contributing Writer at The Crimson Quarry.
Hmm. I think I will dissent a bit and say that I think it’s probably fine as it is. Thanks to Butler’s recent accomplishments, for the first time since the 1950s there really are a true “Big Four” teams. From the perspective of TV and attendance, it makes sense to keep IU, Purdue, ND, and Butler on the same day and playing each other. I wouldn’t be opposed to a parallel event, with ISU, Ball State, Valpo and Evansville, perhaps with a promotion-relegation scheme with IUPUI and IPFW, playing a two-game event on Sunday, but I’m not sure it makes sense to intermingle the other teams with the four teams that are legitimate TV and attendance draws.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 20, 2011 6:22 AM EST reply actions
Butler has 4 Sweet 16s in 8 years
Including those two finals appearances.
It has been a LONG time since Butler wasn’t the most accomplished March team in the state.
Hell, they’ve averages over 24 wins a year for 16 years. This idea that this is some sort of recent relegation is silly.
Butler, presently, has a combined 9 game winning streak going against Notre Dame and Purdue.
by Santos Sorrow on Dec 20, 2011 6:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
In the grand scheme of things, the last decade is “recent.” That is the time frame I was referring to. I think you have to try pretty hard to find anything that I said to be insulting to Butler.
The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog
by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 20, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
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