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Big Ten exapansion talk...again?

As I mentioned in yesterday's headlines post, Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez reopened expansion discussion with these comments: 

Speaking to Wisconsin's athletic board on Friday, Alvarez, the former longtime Badgers football coach, said the conference already has investigated possibilities for expansion "from all over the country." And though he places no timetable on the search, Alvarez thinks conference commissioner Jim Delany will respond to a group of athletic directors and coaches who want expansion.  "I have a sense he is going to take this year to really be more aggressive about it," Alvarez told the board. "I just think everybody feels [expansion] is the direction to go, coaches and administrators."

Expansion is not something that the Big Ten undertakes lightly.  Penn State joined in 1990.  Michigan State joined in 1950.  Before that, the last new members to join were Indiana and Iowa in 1899.  The University of Chicago is the only school to leave the Big Ten permanently (per Wikipedia, Michigan left the conference from 1907-1916, but was a charter member when the conference was formed in 1896).  All current and former members of the Big Ten are major research institutions ranked in the top 100 by US News & World Report and are members of the Association of American Universities.  The Big Ten cares about its brand, academically and athletically.  

Certainly, expansion isn't a new topic around here.  In this post, nearly two and a half years ago,  after comments by Jim Delany about expanding the geographic borders of the conference, I discussed the various possible members in states that border the current Big Ten footprint (but not schools within the footprint.  Last May, I mentioned Joe Paterno's East Coast expansion dreams.  So,  here's a rundown of the candidates. 

One issue that I don't think matters to the discussion is the Notre Dame issue.  While it's an interesting issue, it doesn't add much to the expansion discussion because 1) Notre Dame is extremely unlikely to join the Big Ten; and 2) if #1 ceases to be true, then Notre Dame is an obvious fit as the 12th school and no further discussion is required.  This post will focus on the other schools both inside and outside the footprint that might be plausible candidates.  My inclusion of any school in this list should not be considered any sort of an endorsement.  I will list every school in or adjacent to Big Ten territory that has anything approaching a big time athletic program.

Star-divide

 

INSIDE THE FOOTPRINT (from east to west)

University of Pittsburgh

Pitt_medium

Football: The Panthers have a strong history and have won multiple national championships, but most recently in 1976.  The Panthers' fan support pales in comparison to that of Penn State, but in recent years have been reasonably respectable.  It has been a generation since Pitt could legitimately be considered a football power, but the Panthers certainly wouldn't be a stretch for Big Ten membership in this regard. 
Basketball: Historically, Pitt has been an afterthought, but thanks to the accomplishments of former coach Ben Howland and current coach Jamie Dixon, the Panthers have transformed into one of the best programs in the country.  In the late 1990s, Pitt tore down its football stadium, became a tenant of the Steelers at then-new Heinz Field, and built a state-of-the-art basketball arena where the football stadium once stood.  Pitt seems to have staying power as a basketball power.
US News Ranking: 56 (five current Big Ten members are ranked lower).
AAU member?: Yes.
Fit/Big Ten interest: Pitt, as a large research university within the Big Ten footprint, has much in common with Big Ten schools, and would have been a good fit at any point over the last few decades.  Still, the Panthers plow no new ground.  The Big Ten, thanks to Penn State, already has a strong presence in Pittsburgh.  The Panthers, even during an excellent 2009 season, averaged only 53,000 in attendance at a stadium with a capacity of over 65,000.  Would Pitt, plus the addition of a championship game, result in a net revenue gain for the conference?  I have my doubts. 
Likelihood of interest:I suspect that from a financial perspective, membership would be tough to decline for Pitt.  The Big East, however competitive, provides a fraction of the football revenue.  In 2007-08, Pitt ranked #61 in Division I-A with $39 million in revenue.  Northwestern was last in the Big Ten with $41 million in revenue that year, and Indiana was next-to-last with $56 million, nearly 20 million more than one of the most prominent programs in the Big East.  Also, it would be an academic boon for Pitt.  The interesting question would be to what degree Jamie Dixon and his East Coast recruiting would play a role.  My guess is that Dixon would be opposed, but my further guess is that his opposition wouldn't be enough.

University of Cincinnati

Cincinnati_medium

Football:  Barely more than a decade ago, Cincinnati was on IU's schedule as a MAC-style warmup game.  In 2009, the Bearcats were a missed Texas field goal away from playing for the national championship.  Still, Cincy plays in a 35,000 seat stadium, and Brian Kelly's decision to head to Notre Dame seems to confirm that the Bearcats have nowhere to go but down. 
Basketball:  Cincinnati is a legitimate historical power.  The Bearcats won two NCAA titles in the 1960s and were excellent under Bob Huggins in the 1990s and 2000s. 
US News Ranking: Tier 3 (all Big Ten schools are Tier 1)
AAU member?:  No.
Fit: It's really pointless to debate Cincinnati's athletic merits, whether Ohio State would oppose it, or anything else.  A tier 3 commuter school like Cincinnati never will garner the support  the Big Ten's presidents. 
Likelihood of interest:  Cincinnati is a Big East school with no long history in the conference and located in the heart of Big Ten territory.  I presume Cincinnati would jump at the chance in the unlikely event it were offered.

Iowa State University

Iowa_st_medium

Football:  Other than some recent wins over dramatically more talented Iowa teams, not much to write home about.  Iowa State ranks #103 in all-time winning percentage among current Division I-A members.  Only Northwestern and IU rank lower.  Unlike even Northwestern and IU, Iowa State has never played in one of the current BCS bowls. 
Basketball:  A bit better than football, but not much.  Iowa State hasn't been to the Final Four since 1944 and has only 13 NCAA Tournament appearances. 
US News Ranking: 88, below all Big Ten schools, but Tier 1.
AAU member?: Yes. 
Fit/Big Ten interest:  This is a school that is often mentioned in discussions on Big Ten expansion, and the appeal is completely lost on me.  The Cyclones have a lackluster history in both sports, the Big Ten already has representation in Iowa, which is a fairly small state with no major media markets.  Unless the creation of a championship game is some sort of cure-all, I can't imagine how anyone could argue that adding Iowa State would make the Big Ten a better conference. 
Likelihood of interest:  I sincerely have no idea.  I have no read on Iowa State fans.  I don't know if they prefer to be in a different conference from their rival Hawkeyes or if they would rather go toe-to-toe with Iowa in the Big Ten.  I presume, perhaps unfairly, that most Big East teams would make the leap.  It's a tougher read when the prospective team has a generations-long connection to a prominent conference.  Iowa State ranked #63 in football revenue in 2007-08, and the Big 12 has inbalanced revenue distribution.

OUTSIDE THE FOOTPRINT

Rutgers University

Rutgers_medium

Football:  The Scarlet Knights played in the first-ever college football game but haven't done much to distinguish themselves since then.  Rutgers has parlayed some success under Greg Schiano into strong attendance, stadium expansion, and the like, but would it be appealing for Rutgers to leave an eastern conference that it theoretically can dominate to join a conference where it must compete with Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State?  Rutgers has won 50 percent of its games (#78 in I-A) and has never played in a New Year's Day bowl or in one of the current BCS bowls. 
Basketball:  The Scarlet Knights have been to the NCAA Tournament six times in school history, most recently in 1991. Rutgers plays its home games in the RAC, and 8,000 bandbox. 
US News Ranking: 66, within the range of Big Ten schools.
AAU member?: Yes.

Fit: Academically, fine.  Athletically, the Scarlet Knights are well below average in the two sports that matter.  Rutgers is a popular hobby horse for Joe Paterno and others, usually based on Rutgers's presence in the greater New York metro area/media market.  This strikes me as overblown.  If being in such an area matters, then why does Rutgers play in a 8,000 seat basketball arena?  Why was the football stadium only recently expanded from 41,000?  This would be a nice addition for Big Ten alumni who live in New York, but letting Rutgers in wouldn't turn NYC into a Big Ten town. 
Likelihood of interest:  Rutgers is one of the more profitable Big East football programs with 2007-08 revenue of $50 million.  I presume the academic pull would be strong, but I can imagine some reticence about the idea of New Jersey's state university joining such a distinctly midwestern institution.

Syracuse University

Syracuse_medium

Football: The Orange have been down for several years, but they are a traditional football power.  Historically, if not recently, the football program would be a reasonable addition to the Big Ten.
Basketball:  Under the leadership of Jim Boeheim, Syracuse has been one of the most successful programs of the last 25 years, winning the 2003 NCAA title and finishing second twice (wouldn't the "Keith Smart, Keith Smart!" chant be fun?).  Of course, Syracuse was a charter member of the Big East and is highly identified with that conference.   
US News Ranking: 58, pretty average for the Big Ten.
AAU member?: Yes.
Fit:  Syracuse would constitute an expansion far northeast of ithe current footprint.  While one can argue whether western New york and western Pennsylvania have more in common with the midwest or the east coast, my less-than-knowledgeable impression is that as a university, Syracuse is very tied in to New York City and draws much of its student body from metro New York despite the geographic distance.  Syracuse is as far east as Baltimore.  Still, Penn State was an eastern power before joining the Big Ten, so Syracuse doesn't seem like much of a departure.  Academically, although a private school and a bit smaller than most Big Ten schools, SU would fit just fine. 
Likelihood of interest: I really don't know.  In terms of revenue, it would seem to be a solid move for Syracuse.  On the other hand, Syracuse is one of the more tradition-rich football programs in the Big East.  It's possible to picture Syracuse dominating the Big East in football.  The Big Ten?  Not so much.  Basketball, it seems to me, would be the major stumbling block.  My guess is that Jim Boeheim wields a lot of influence at Syracuse, and my further guess is that he wouldn't be interested in such a major idenity shift for his program.

University of Maryland

Maryland_medium

Football: A solid but not overwhelming history in the ACC.  Maryland has had a BCS appearance in the last ten years. 
Basketball:  Maryland is a basketball school in a basketball conference, and has won the NCAA Tournament in the last ten years. 
US News Ranking: 53, solidly in the middle of the Big Ten. 
AAU member?: Yes.
Fit: Certainly, Maryland's academics and athletics are up to snuff.  Of course, like Syracuse, adding Maryland would be a major move eastward.  On the other hand, Maryland is located in the suburbs of  the major media market of Washington DC, and as far as I can tell as an outsider, seems to be more a part of the region's consciousness than Rutgers is in New York City.  If Maryland were interested, I would think they would be a reasonably strong candidate.
Likelihood of interest:  It strikes me as unlikely that Maryland would be interested.  Despite recent strides in football, Maryland is a basketball school, and currently is one of the better programs in college basketball's most prestigious conference.  My guess is that fan and alumni resistance would be strong.

West Virginia University

Wvu_medium

Football: The Mountaineers are an above average football program with a nearly .600 winning percentage and five top ten finishes in the last 22 seasons. WVU would be a worthy addition in football.
Basketball: The alma mater of Jerry West has a long and decent NCAA Tournament history and has qualified for the Sweet 16 three times in the last five years.  WVU is no powerhouse, but has a solid basketball program.
US News Ranking: Tier 3.  That's pretty bad for a state's flagship public university (all Big Ten schools are in Tier 1, roughly the top 100).
AAU member?: No.
Fit: I suspect that for Big Ten presidents, academics might be the dealbreaker.  In academic prestige, WVU has more in common with Cincinnati and Louisville than with Big Ten schools.  Also, WVU adds no major media markets.  It's a shame, because I don't think WVU would be a bad fit athletically. 
Likelihood of interest:  I presume, with no real knowledge of the institution, that there would be interest.  Obviously, part of that interest would be based on revenue and prestige, but as a state, West Virginia strikes me as something of a region of its own.  It's not really southern, eastern, or midwestern, and certainly isn't tied to the east coast the way Rutgers and Syracuse are.  I presume WVU would be game if the Big Ten were.

University of Kentucky

Kentucky_medium

Football: UK has a solid program, but the Wildcats are an afterthought in the extremely competitive SEC East.  As IU fans will recall from the longtime football series between IU and UK, the Wildcats have impressive fan support for a team with a below average record. 
Basketball: Obviously, the Wildcats are one of the most accomplished programs in the history of college basketball.  This addition would dramatically increase the prestige of the Big Ten.  Imagine: IU-UK, MSU-UK, Purdue-UK, Ohio State-UK, Illinois-UK, every year, usually twice a year. 
US News Ranking: 128.  Lower than all current Big Ten schools, but not dramatically so. 
AAU member?: No.
Fit: Obviously, basketball would be awesome.  Football?  Well, Kentucky has good fan support, but generally is considered a have-not.  I'm not sure how the revenue picture would look.  Kentucky would add the Lexington market and would enhance the Big Ten's presence in the Louisville and Cincinnati markets.
Likelihood of interest:  I really don't know.  Kentucky strikes me as a state that despite its central geography really treasures its southern identity.  Leaving a southern conference to join a midwestern conference might clash with that.  Academically, it seems to me it would be a great move for a school that is not currently Big Ten caliber but is within striking distance.  In football, UK would be leaving a long history in the SEC, but might be convinced that it has a better chance of competing in the Big Ten.  In basketball, UK has owned the SEC, but of its three biggest rivals (Louisville, Indiana, and Tennessee) two are non-conference.  It's an intriguing question.

University of Louisville

Louisville_medium

Football:  The Cardinals had a brief moment in the spotlight earlier this decade, but aren't a traditional football power by any stretch.
Basketball:  The Cardinals have won two NCAA titles and are a top 10 basketball program historically, or top 15 at least. 
US News Ranking: Tier 3 (all current Big Ten schools are Tier 1). 
AAU member?: No.
Fit: Louisville would be a decent fit athletically and geographically, but my guess is that academics would be a dealbreaker. 
Likelihood of interest: I presume that the opportunity to move into a more lucrative conference, particularly for football, would be attractive.  Louisville's history in the Big East is relatively short, and the Metro/Great Midwest/Conference USA were constantly adding and losing members.  This wouldn't be like Kentucky leaving the SEC after generations of membership, for instance.  My guess is that UL would move, but it's academic.

University of Missouri

Mizzou_medium

Football:  An average program historically but currently on the upswing. 
Basketball:  Thanks to Maryland's recent tournament success, Missouri probably now owns the dubious distinction of "best basketball program without a Final Four appearance."  Still, Mizzou has a solid basketball program. 
US News Ranking: 102.  Below all Big Ten schools but not dramatically so. 
AAU member?: Yes.
Fit:  Missouri would be an expansion of the conference's borders but into a midwestern portion of the country. bordered by Illinois and Iowa  Missouri has good programs in both major sports, is the flagship university in its state, and would add the Kansas City media market and would solidify the Big Ten's presence in the St. Louis market.  Again, I don't have a good enough handle on the numbers to know how they would work.
Likelihood of interest:  Well, check out this thread on Rock M Nation.  Some Mizzou fans are in favor, others are adamantly against the move.  Mizzou has a long history in the Big 12 and its predecessors, but also some discontent with the current (in their view) Texas-dominated Big 12.  The Big 12 has a less even revenue distribution formula than the Big Ten.  I suspect that academics might carry the day if Mizzou were invited.

University of Nebraska

Nebraska_medium

Football:  While the last few years haven't been kind to the Huskers, they are an elite program. 
Basketball:  Nothing special, but neither was Penn State basketball.
US News Ranking: 96, slightly below the tail end of the Big Ten. 
AAU member?: Yes.
Fit:  Nebraska borders the Big Ten by virtue of a short border with Iowa, and would be quite a western expansion.  Nebraska adds no major media markets, but particularly in football, the Huskers are the only show in town.  Academically, NU is good enough. 
Likelihood of interest:  I really have no idea.  Given the significance of Nebraska football, the long history in the Big 8/Big 12, and the fact that a Nebraska program playing to its potentional should own the Big Ten North, my guess is that there would be little interest. 

 

Well, those are the candidates, both within and adjacent to the footprint.  What do you think?  Who do you prefer?  Did I miss anyone?  I welcome all comments.

0 recs  |  Comment 40 comments |

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Pitt seems like the obvious choice...

And I think they would be a great fit. It works geographically, academically, and their football team would fit in great. I think their moving to the Big 10 would cause their football revenues especially to increase dramatically. The quality of Big East teams is just not enough to draw a ton of fans.

Dixon would indeed likely be against it. But it’s more of a lateral basketball move, it’s not like it’s a terrible loss.

by rcpratt on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What is the mid-west bias against the eastern teams?

Undoubtedly, the BIG EAST is the premier basketball and lacrosse conference and anything else would be a step-down. SU has won more lacrosse NC’s than any other school and UNCONN is always consistent in men’s and woman’s basketball. While the football programs aren’t the best, they are consistently solid with a heritage of NC’s and all-star players like Ernie Davis, Floyd Little, Larry Csonka, Pat White, Ray Rice, Dwight Freeny, Marvin Harrison, and Donovan McNabb. Any basketball and lacrosse coach would be against the move.

by kev1006 on Dec 15, 2009 9:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LACROSSE?

With the exception of the 20 or so pansy rich kids on the team, who the F cares about lacrosse?

Football and basketball are the only revenue sports. Footbal, basketball, AAU membership and research & academic prestige are the only factors. Lacrosse! That’s so cute.

by 4OUR on Dec 15, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Great read

I absolutely oppose the suggestion that Pitt would bring anything to the conference. Average media market, small fan base, and no academic advantage to what the Big Ten already provides. The best fit for the 12th Big Ten team would be Missouri. They already have a football rivalry with Illinois and could easily be expanded to ones with Iowa, Minnesota or even Indiana. A very vocal and good sized fan base and is actually representative of an entire state rather than simply a city.

by Charlie@nwo on Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think Mizzou would be an okay fit, too

But you argue that Pitt gives no academic advantage (which I disagree with, anytime you can add another school ranked around your average ranking in, that’s a great addition) to the Big 10, but fail to mention that Mizzou (#102) would be a fairly significant disadvantage to the Big 10.

Mizzou would be a great athletic fit, though.

by rcpratt on Dec 14, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, they fit. They fit in as basically an average BT school academically and athletically. The would have been a fit if they were added 50 years ago, but does it make sense to add them in 2009? I don’t know. It seems to me that they neither add nor detract. I agree that Missouri is probably the best addition.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 14, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've not put tons of thought or looked up any statistics

but what about Marshall or Memphis? Obviously one drawback is that both only excel in one sport. Memphis brings in a nice new media market, too.

I have no idea about academics at either institution, but just thought i would join in the speculation in this very interesting piece.

I also think Mizzou would be a great fit in the Big 10.

Cards, Colts, and Pacers - Baseball, football, and basketball or gambling, guns, and old cars?

by JPBarnett on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Both schools are stretches academically and athletically. I don’t think the Big Ten should do anything that waters down its brand academically or athletically.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 14, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Virginia Tech could go on the "outside the footprint" list as well.

Although I don’t think there’s any chance it would happen. Blacksburg is about as far from Big 10 territory as WVU, Louisville, and Nebraska.

It’s a solid academic university (#71) with a great football team and a basketball team on the upswing. I would imagine the Big Ten would be very interested in VT, but we don’t really give them any compelling reason to leave the ACC. Although they’re on the edge of ACC territory and very far away from Miami and Florida State, they’re equally far away from western Big Ten school like Iowa, Wisconsin, Northwester, Illinois, etc.

by rcpratt on Dec 14, 2009 4:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Objection!

You Big Ten kids stay off our Maryland/Virginia lawn! VT would be a good fit, though smaller fan base than most major state schools, but a great football program there. The way Larry Johnson has been cleaning up the states of Virginia and Maryland for us there though, we would hate to have to share it with the rest of the Big Ten.

by Charlie@nwo on Dec 14, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure if there’s some list of size of fan bases somewhere, but from what I’ve seen from VT, they have tons of passionate fans. Lane Stadium is easily one of the top 5 most electric football stadiums in the country, and they have a huge following throughout Virginia and in the D.C. area (almost as much as Maryland, I think). I have also noticed an abnormally large number of VT fans in the midwest, for some reason.

by rcpratt on Dec 14, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My list includes only schools that are in Big Ten states or are in states adjacent to Big Ten states. So, VT misses the cut, although PA is within 2 miles of VA at the point where Maryland is narrowest.

My sense is that VT has a pretty strong van base. Certainly, it doesn’t match OSU, Michigan, or Penn State, but VT’s stadium now seats 66,000, which would be something close to the middle of the pack in the Big Ten: larger than IU, NU, Purdue, and Minnesota, at least.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d say your fan base assessment is about right — not up with the national pull of the tOSU / Michigan / PSU group, but I think we’d compare pretty well with that middle tier of Illinois, Iowa, MSU and Wisconsin in fan interest if not necessarily in stadium capacity. We have to split our state with UVa, but Virginia is the twelfth most-populous state in the Union and growing at a good clip, plus we pull a fair amount of interest from Maryland, southern West Virginia, and parts of North Carolina (the mountainous section directly due south of Blacksburg, plus an strong alumni base in the Research Triangle).

Virginia Tech alumni and fan resistance to any move out of the ACC would probably be even stronger than that of Maryland, though. Maryland is on the cultural and geographic fringe of the ACC (let’s not even discuss Boston College), but before the 03-04 realignment wave got us in, Virginia Tech and its alumni and fans had spent fifty years smack in the middle of ACC territory with our noses figuratively pressed against the shop window; we were absolutely overjoyed when 1 July 2004 came and we finally got in. A fair amount of political capital was spent to get us into this conference as well (with then-Governor/now-Senator Mark Warner and UVa president John Casteen in the lead); squandering that wouldn’t go over well. CIC membership and (presumably) help into the AAU would be attractive to be sure, but I doubt they’d be enough to overcome those two issues. (FWIW, the ACC is working on its own counterpart to the CIC; it’s got a long way to go, but it’s only gotten serious funding since the first championship game in ’05, so evaluate progress on that basis.)

So I think I can speak for most Hokies in saying that while it’d be a compliment to be considered by the Big Ten, we’re (finally) happy where we are.

That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.

by JoshCVT on Dec 15, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Missouri is clearly the most likely choice. It expands the Big Ten footprint in the right direction, has pre-existing rivalries, and meets all the criteria.

That being said, Notre Dame is and always will be the proverbial one that got away, until they finally wise up and join the Big Ten.

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by MonkeyBusiness on Dec 14, 2009 5:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

There is a lot of bad feeling to ND in Big Ten circles. I think the Big Ten would only consider ND if ND approached it with an application already approved by the trustees. Academically, ND is not a good fit – it is not a research university and is not a member of the AAU. It would bring little to the CIC – but derive a large benefit from the CIC.

by Murray R on Dec 14, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I want nothing to do with Notre Dame. They don’t deserve us and we don’t deserve their cockiness.

After reading through some other articles/blogs, I’m warming up to Mizzou being the logical choice.

by rcpratt on Dec 14, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ND to Big East

Someday, it will be done. They already are in the BE for all sports other than football. It is just the fball money thing that needs to be worked out.

by kev1006 on Dec 15, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ND, the BE and Brian Kelly

Not so sure about ND and the BE. They cherish their national schedule, not to mention the network contract and not having to split bowl or NCAA tournament revenue. Even in the last decade, ND is the most profitable college football program in the nation.

And the Irish enjoy a sweetheart deal with the BCS. Why would they abandon that?

If Kelly recharges the program (and I wouldn’t bet against it), the next network contract will be even bigger and there will be less incentive for ND to join the Big East.

by MAR1962 on Dec 17, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

NACDA Cup Standings

While football is a big focus, the overall athletic program is key. In 2008-9, Big Ten schools finished between fifth (Michigan) and 55th (Indiana) in the “NACDA Standings”.http://www.nacda.com/directorscup/nacda-directorscup-current-scoring.html

Here are how the prospects you listed stacked up:
28 Maryland
31 Nebraska
32 Louisville
34 Kentucky
36 Missouri
50 WVU
58 Iowa State
63 Syracuse
92 Rutgers
93 Pitt
129 Cincinnati

I think Rutgers, Pitt and Cincinnati overall programs are too weak for the Big Ten.

Louisville, Kentucky, WVU and Cincinnati do not make the cut academically.

I think Missouri is the best fit. Geographically it is good – with two major markets, KC and St. Louis. Not as big as NY but not as competitive,

by Murray R on Dec 14, 2009 8:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

MAR

I think the Directors’ Cup standings way underrate Pitt and Syracuse. Honestly, the sports that really matter are the revenue-producing ones — football and men’s basketball. They stand in a class of their own. The other considerations are the academic brand of the Big 10 (AAU members, top 100 in U.S. News ratings) and market expansion.

The best school to join would be Maryland, but they will not leave the ACC under any circumstances.

I’ve done a comparison and it seems that Syracuse, with its large NYC fanbase; Rutgers, which is in the NY metro area and Pitt will get the most attention. The Big East will be viewed by its members as somewhat unstable unless Notre Dame decides to anchor it by going all-in. Nebraska and Missouri would be the second schools looked at. The Big 12 North schools seem to view the Big 12 as Texas-dominated and may be amenable to joining a midwest conference, and one that would bolster their academic credibility.

by MAR1962 on Dec 17, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice timing on this post.

According to a Chicago Tribune article, the Big Ten is going to announce today (Tuesday) that they are officially looking to expand.

by rcpratt on Dec 15, 2009 2:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the link.

I added it to this morning’s Headlines post. I’m not sure I understand the rationale behind announcing an intent to expand. If we are going after Missouri, for instance, wouldn’t it make more sense to do it quietly rather than give the Big 12 time to sweeten the pot?

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 15, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The New Southwest Conference

I am not sure if there is anything the Big 12 can do to sweeten the pot. A lot of Mizzou people are not happy with the Texas tilt of the Big 12 – the New SWC. The coference HQ was even moved from Kansas City to Texas. A lot of Mizzou people are advocating that the Big Ten is a better fit for Mizzou – and would rather be aligned with it both academically and athletically. Check out this blog:
http://big10mizzou.blogspot.com/

by Murray R on Dec 15, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

SWC 2.0

Agree with you Murray. There are powerful forces pulling apart the Big 12. The Texas orientation of the conference has become, I think, a major turnoff for many of the Big 12 North schools. Its not unlikely that one of them would bolt to join the Big 10 if membership were on offer. Meanwhile, Big 12 South schools look at TCU as a way back into the heart of the region’s biggest market, Dallas.

The only thing holding the groups together is the championship game. And I son’t think what happened in the final seconds at Cowboys Stadium will endear Husker Nation to the Big 12.

by MAR1962 on Dec 17, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure if I understand the intent to expand announcement either.

But it will sure make things interesting. I’d love to know what schools they have in mind, or how far they are actually willing to expand. Alvarez’s “all over the country” quote really intrigued me.

by rcpratt on Dec 15, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good post

Would prefer to stay at 11 teams.

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by PurdueMatt on Dec 15, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not a chance UK leaves the SEC

Missouri is the best bet

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Hard to watch her suffer, but with the second shot she died...

by btcoop71 on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

PSU should be removed from the Big Ten

For two reasons…
1) horrible basketball program
2) Michael Mann’s involvement in Climategate

Ever Grateful. Ever True.

by PurdueMatt on Dec 15, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Pitt vs Missouri

Charlie, You say Pitt doesn’t match up to Missouri because they don’t have the same fan base as Mizzou. Yet they outdrew Mizzou by 38% in basketball attendance. They were about 22% lower in football attendance this year, but don’t you think with a better schedule, one that may feature OSU, PSU and Mich every year, that Pitt would probably push the 60k per game level?

Also you mention Mizzou’s rivalry with Illinois and potential new ones. The same can be said for a Pitt-PSU rivalry, which from a football perspective is larger, from a national perspective, than ILL-Mizzou. Also, Pitt could easily develop a good rivalry with OSU as they played fairly regularly in the past and are less than 3 hrs a part. Same could probably occur with UM.

by OhioPittfan on Dec 15, 2009 2:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting choices

Mizzou is probably the best choice for the combination of academics, athletics, and expanding the footprint. Pitt makes sense as well because they are good academically and they are good at the two major revenue sports. However, as you mentioned, they don’t do as much to expand the footprint.

That said, I just get this feeling that they are looking at Rutgers because they want to increase their exposure to the New York metro area. It would certainly help the current schools gain a stronger presence in a fertile recruiting area, especially for basketball. I think the Big Ten definitely has a better chance of luring Rutgers away from the Big East than they do Syracuse.

As for Kentucky, I think you hit the nail on the head. For a state that is not really in the deep south, they sure do want to pretend that they are. They would certainly have a better chance of competing in football, and competing against the Big Ten teams in basketball would only serve to make them more battle tested for March Madness. However, they will never leave the SEC because that would be like admitting that they are not a true southern state.

Louisville does not stack up academically, but they are very interesting from an athletic point of view. The athletic department as a whole has really raised its profile in recent years. Besides basketball and football success, they have recently had a lot of success in soccer, baseball, and women’s basketball. They also don’t seem to have any trouble spending money on athletics, from the standpoint of both facilities and coaches pay. The biggest question with Louisville is their commitment to raising their academic profile. If they were able to outline an aggressive plan to improve in that area, then I think the Big Ten would be wise to consider them closely.

Just for the sake of throwing out names, if you are going to consider Syracuse then wouldn’t you also have to consider UConn? I would think they are both about the same distance from our current borders. I also would think that the chances of it happening are about as good, which is to say not good at all.

by acelion on Dec 15, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I really think Rutgers is fool’s gold. Rutgers already is the only major public university in a state with nearly 9 million people (#11 nationally). It is one of the country’s most affluent states, it’s located in the #1 US metro and the other half of the state is in another top 10 metro. For all of those resources and potential exposure, what does Rutgers have to show for it? They have never played in a New Year’s Day bowl. They haven’t been to the NCAA Tournament since 1991. The most famous event in Rutgers athletics in the last 25 years is when the women’s basketball team was insulted by Don Imus. I really don’t think adding a cellar dweller is going to turn New York into a Big Ten town. While the NY market is huge, only 1/3 of that population lives in New Jersey. Are people in Stamford, CT, or Manhattan, or Long Island going to give a flip about the Rutgers-Michigan game?

I limited my post to schools that are in or contiguous to the Big Ten footprint. You are right about the distances, but NY borders PA.

The Crimson Quarry, SB Nation's Indiana Hoosiers blog

by John M (The Crimson Quarry) on Dec 15, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

NYC Market

Syracuse, not Rutgers, has the NYC market. Take a look at any of the b’ball games in MSG. Look how many Syracuse fans there are? Now look how many Rutgets fans there are. Not many.

Let’s not forget that the only reason there is any interest in Rutgers f’ball in NYC is because Syracuse sucked the past few years. Once Rutgers resumes it position at the bottom of the D1 ladder, the fans will forget them and be back on Syracuse’s side. There are too many SU alum in NYC.

by kev1006 on Dec 15, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

About Pitt

Pittsburgh is a top 25 TV market in the US. And to say the city is dominated by PSU’ers is a lie.

Lots of people saying Dixon wouldn’t want them leave such a great hoops conference. Not so sure that’s true — while the BE is a great hoops conference, it might hurt Pitt more than it helps. Each year after falling from the tournament (both BE and NCAA), the murmurs start about how the team gets too beat up in conference play and doesn’t ever have enough to last late into the tourney.

Don’t be so quick to assume Dixon would shoot the idea down.

by D.M.J. on Dec 15, 2009 5:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Temple?

I know they’d be a longshot, but they already play D1 b’ball and f’ball. Getting some name recognition from the Big Ten can only help them improve. Plus they bring the Philly TV market.

by kev1006 on Dec 15, 2009 9:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What?

No one goes to their games. Penn State already has the Philly market. Did you smoke a ton of weed after lacrosse practice?

by 4OUR on Dec 15, 2009 11:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

pitt is attractive but

mizzou is probably the best choice. It’s thourougly midwestern with a 70,000 seat stadium, and a solid football program ranked #1 as recently as 2007, and they’ve ended up in the top 25 for the past few years. The basketball team has been to the Elite 8 twice since 2002 (02,08). 2 recent national champions in wrestling, top 25 gymnastic and baseball teams, etc.,

KC and STL are def good markets. There would be more recruiting inroads to Texas as mizzou gets half of its players from the state. I also think Mizzou is looking to stabilize it’s academic rep, because in U.S.News it has vacillated between the low 60’s in 06-07 to low 100’s in 08-09

With Missouri the Big 10 would have a lock on the two best Journalism schools in the country,and additional top notch medical, law, vet and business schools.

by TIGRPRIDE on Dec 16, 2009 12:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Note on 'Cuse
My guess is that Jim Boeheim wields a lot of influence at Syracuse, and my further guess is that he wouldn’t be interested in such a major idenity shift for his program.

He wasn’t in favor of the proposed move to the ACC, but we would have gone anyway if the VA government hadn’t intervened. There’s basically no chance a Big East school would decline an invite, and pretty much the plausible Big East candidates (SU, Rutgers, and Pitt) are pretty much guaranteed to pursue an invite.

by drothgery on Dec 16, 2009 12:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

MAR

Spot-on. RU, SU and Pitt would all make the move if they got the offer. In the Big 12, Mizzou is already campaigning for it. And Nebraska would think about it very seriously.

I think these are the five we should be looking at closely, because those are the ones the Big 10 is eventually going to focus on.

by MAR1962 on Dec 17, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cincinnati's Academics

Cincinnati’s academic ratings are very misleading because students are admitted to colleges within the university, not the university at large. Would a “commuter college” have over 2,500 international students, and have publications rating it as the 4th best university in the world for international students to attend?

Half of the campus (17,000 students) attends what is essentially an average Big 10 school.

Of its twelve colleges, two (Music; and Design, Architecture, Art and Planning) are top 5 in the world. Not the country, the world. Others, such as Engineering, Education/Criminal Justice, Nursing, Pharmacy, Medical (grad), and Law (grad) are at or above Big 10 averages. However, the problem is that schools are rated on the quality of their liberal arts programs and little else. Cincy’s liberal arts, satellite campuses, and “applied science” colleges (read “technician training”) are legitimately weak, but are encouraged to admit poor students as part of the university’s community outreach, much like OSU’s or PSU’s satellite colleges. The only difference is that many of the programs are located on main campus. Should that really be a knock on the school? According to hiring managers, and international audiences, no. But according to US News and professors in American academia, it is.

That being said, Cincinnati would not benefit from the Big 10. We’d always be the Michigan State to OSU’s Michigan. Our football team might be better some, or even much of the time, but it wouldn’t matter because OSU and Michigan run the Big 10. With the biggest alumni base and 2nd biggest endowment in the Big East, we can continue to grow in football while competing in the best basketball conference in the land.

by quailroberts on Dec 17, 2009 11:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Academics

College presidents may all denounce the US News ratings, but they (and fundraisers) all look at them as the standard by which academic reputation is judged. You may well be right about UC, but in the final analysis, to paraphrase Bill Parcells, “you are what your US News ranking says you are.”

by MAR1962 on Dec 17, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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